 
|
Sponsor
Baseball Schedule is your best source for the latest St Louis Cardinals Schedule information as well as keeping up with division rivals including Cubs Schedule, Reds Schedule, Brewers Schedule and Astros Schedule. Bet on the Cardinals with Sports Interaction's MLB betting lines Slots Galore Casino Tournaments Get your tickets from Bubba! Cheap St. Louis Cardinals Tickets and more, including tickets for the next MLB All-Star Game. Bubba's got Boston Red Sox Tickets and New York Yankees Tickets Authentic, large selection of Cardinals memorabilia, guaranteed and certified. Subscribe RSS Feed
Archives
Players
Categories
Alliance tickets has an extensive inventory of St. Louis Cardinals Tickets , Colorado Rockies Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and Seattle MarinersTickets. With all of the St Louis tickets out there, Cardinals tickets and Rams tickets make for great presents. GoTickets.com can fill all of your sports tickets needs, just check out our testimonials! |
Cardinals and RedsHow exactly did we get here? How did we come from St. Louis and Cincinnati having just a passing thought in each other's minds to a knockdown, dragout rivalry between the two squads and the two fan bases? And, honestly, why is there such a rivalry, Johnny Cueto notwithstanding?The history of Cardinals and Reds is as short as possible. The two teams weren't even in the same division (once divisional play was introduced in 1962) until 1995 when the three-division format was introduced. While the Reds did win the wild card in 1999, I really don't think there was much memorable about the two teams getting together until last year, save for a few Jim Edmonds highlight-reel catches. He always did love robbing the Reds, for some reason. So last year the Reds capitalize on their young talent, ride some great years, and win the NL Central, along the way earning the enmity of many a Cardinal fan. Yet it's not like it was the first time a team had taken a divisional title away from the St. Louis nine. Even the Cubs have won the NL Central in the last decade, and the hatred of the baby bears isn't anywhere close to that of the Reds, and the Cubs have the "head-start" of a long-time rivalry. As a person who is related to a Reds fan, I've often followed the Reds over the last decade. Even so, this hatred and vitriol has really blown up quickly, like one of those many severe spring thunderstorms that we've had recently. Really, it doesn't make much sense. Oh, I know there were the comments from Brandon Phillips which threw fuel on the fire last year and sparked the conflagration that happened in Cincy last August. However, it seems like that fire was already burning on some level, he just added to it. Now you have Bernie Miklasz asking the Reds to shape up and Marty Brennaman calling the Cardinals "the most disliked team in baseball" (though, as Dennis from Pitchers Hit Eighth pointed out, it was actually the Reds coming in high on the Hatred Baseball Team Index last season), and you wonder just exactly why we are here. I wonder if it might be something very unexpected. The teams are just too alike. It really is like the two teams come from the same tree, with a dash of sibling rivalry tossed in there. We've gone through the names before, but just look at the Cardinal influence that's currently on the Reds roster. Scott Rolen, Edgar Renteria, Miguel Cairo. Last year the Reds even had Jason Isringhausen and Russ Springer in the organization. It's obvious that the Reds tend to look at the same type of players that the Cardinals do, which is not surprising with former Cardinal GM Walt Jocketty now holding those duties for the Reds. With their youth and relative inexperience and success, the Reds are like the little brother, trying to adopt some of the habits of their older brother in an attempt to knock him off. As anyone that has had a sibling knows, those are not peaceful transitions. The older will continue to try to keep the younger down, which will keep the younger fighting that much harder to assert himself. Both teams come from smaller markets. Both teams are Midwest teams with Midwest values and Midwest sensibilities. They both have a rich tradition of baseball and they have a loyal fan base. (Though, if attendance numbers are to be believed, perhaps St. Louis's is a bit more likely to make it through the turnstiles.) There are a number of good Cincinnati blogs and, though I'm biased, the Cardinals have one of the best blogging communities out there. It's sad, though, that the teams and the fan bases can't seem to get along and have competition without conflict. Reds fans say that if Chris Carpenter has a complaint about the mound, he's whining. (Reds fans generally say that if Carpenter opens his mouth at all--I'm really not sure who is held in higher disdain in Cincinnati, Carp or Yadier Molina.) They throw around the "whining" card so often that Cardinal fans come back and note that, boy, it sure sounds like Reds fans are whining about whining. It's a never ending circle. Is it going to get any better? Probably not for a while. The Reds won the Central last year and that gives them bragging rights. They took the series this weekend, so that adds to it. Yet Cardinal fans will point out that last year's title is all well and good, but call us when you've actually won a game in October. (The fact that it took two games for them to get a hit in the NLDS might be brought up occasionally as well.) One year of winning vs. a decade and a half of success---older brother and younger brother yet again. It'd be nice to see the fan bases bring a little more friendly to this rivalry, but I'm not seeing that happen either. Cardinal fans won't forget that Jason LaRue's career ended because Cueto fought dirty or that the whole thing started because of Phillips's words and actions. Reds fans have gotten the idea that the Cardinals are a bunch of, well, you know, in their mind set and there's little that this current squad of Redbirds can do to remove it. For the record, I really do have some good relationships with Reds bloggers and they all seem like great people. We've had Shawn from Cincinnati Reds Blog on the UCB show often and he's done the Playing Pepper series quite a bit. I've interacted with others on Twitter and they are able to take a joke and dish it right back. While they may not like the Cardinal fanbase as a whole, they are able to like (or at least respect) individual portions of it. The other portion of this rivalry that could use some examination is the relationship between Dusty Baker and Tony La Russa. Wherever Dusty goes, his teams tend to start being confrontational with the Cardinals. Whether it is something TLR does or Dusty does or the fact that teams take after their manager to some degree, the issues have gone back all the way to Dusty's days with the Giants. It's strange because, at least in public, the two managers talk like they respect each other. Tony's recently made mention that one of the regrets he has was not hiring Dusty as a coach when his career was done, a career that ended on a TLR-managed team. It is true that Dusty played in 111 games his first season with the A's, a number that dropped to 83 the season TLR joined the squad, but La Russa didn't join the club until mid-summer. He did seem to play less in August and September that year, but not that significantly. It doesn't seem like it was another Ozzie Smith-type of situation, where he alienated a long-time veteran. When one team or the other slips from the ranks of the contenders and when Baker and La Russa have moved on, it's likely that things will get back to normal. Just look at some of the past rivalries--the Brewers aren't nearly the ire-inducing that they used to be, the Cubs are back to the more general rival type, the Giants are hardly seen and more respected than despised. Even the Houston rivalry, which was a professional one that never seemed to get too heated, has dwindled with their slide down the standings. This season has a long way to go and little brother still has a lot of hurdles before he can take down big brother again. However, I wouldn't be surprised if both teams don't have the July 4 weekend circled on the calendar, ready to set off their fireworks yet again.  Leave a comment 4 Comments4 Comments | Leave a commentLeave a comment |
  Search
This blog was featured in the Best Sports Blogs of 2010 Book! • Pick up the limited print edition • Free Best Sports Blogs ebook United Cardinal Bloggers
FRIENDS OF THE UCB Download the iPhone or Android UCB app by clicking on the nice orange picture.
 And check out the UCB Network over at LockerDome!  Other Cardinal Blogs
Recommended Cardinal ForumOther Cardinal Sites
General Baseball Blogs/Sites
Find more sold out tickets
 HeroesMatt Holliday (5) Matt Carpenter (4) Rafael Furcal (4) Carlos Beltran (3) Jon Jay (3) Kyle Lohse (3) Lance Lynn (3) Yadier Molina (3) David Freese (2) Jaime Garcia (2) Adam Wainwright (2) Lance Berkman (1) Allen Craig (1) Shane Robinson (1) Fernando Salas (1) Jake Westbrook (1) 2011 Top Hero: Lance Berkman (24) 2010 Top Heroes: Matt Holliday and Albert Pujols (24) 2009 Top Hero: Albert Pujols (28) 2008 Top Hero: Albert Pujols (25) GoatsMatt Holliday (4) Carlos Beltran (3) David Freese (3) Jaime Garcia (3) Marc Rzepczynski (3) Adam Wainwright (3) Rafael Furcal (2) Tyler Greene (2) Jason Motte (2) J.C. Romero (2) Fernando Salas (2) Mitchell Boggs (1) Matt Carpenter (1) Tony Cruz (1) Daniel Descalso (1) Jon Jay (1) Erik Komatsu (1) Kyle Lohse (1) Victor Marte (1) Eduardo Sanchez (1) Jake Westbrook (1) 2011 Top Goat: Ryan Theriot (12) 2010 Top Goat: Brendan Ryan (14) 2009 Top Goats: Rick Ankiel and Todd Wellemeyer (13) 2008 Top Goat: Troy Glaus (13) 2012 Happy FlightsHappy Flights: 7 Happy Flight Opportunities: 12 Happy Flight %: 58% Through 5/20 Cardinal Nation Approval Ratings (March 2012)Adam Wainwright 91.9% (down 2.8%) Chris Carpenter 90.1% (up 3.2%) Lance Berkman 88.6% Tony La Russa 88.2% (up 17.4%) Yadier Molina 87.4% (up 3.7%) Matt Holliday 87.3% (down 3.8%) David Freese 85.5% John Mozeliak 85.4% (up 13.3%) Mike Shannon 85.3% (up 0.4%) Jose Oquendo 84.7% Derrick Goold 82.8% (down 5.0%) Mark McGwire 82.6% (up 20.1%) John Rooney 81.5% (down 2.8%) Mike Matheny 81.1% Bill DeWitt 79.8% (up 8.8%) United Cardinal Bloggers 78.9% Skip Schumaker 73.3% (up 9.2%) Jim Hayes 71.9% (down 4.2%) Jon Jay 71.1% B.J. Rains 69.5% (down 0.9%) Kyle Lohse 68.9% (up 13.8%) Dan McLaughlin 68.0% Joe Strauss 67.7% (up 10.2%) Ricky Horton 67.5% (down 1.6%) Al Hrabosky 66.4% (up 3.2%) Albert Pujols 54.9% (down 45.5%) Colby Rasmus 46.5% (down 35.3%) 2011 Dave Duncan 87.9% (up 0.9%) Matthew Leach 85.5% Pop Warner 76.7% Ryan Franklin 72.8% (up 3.1%) John Vuch 68.9% Jeff Luhnow 66.4% Dan Lozano 58.7% 2009 Rick Ankiel 83.9% Chris Duncan 69.1% Looking for St. Louis Cardinals Tickets? TicketCity is your source for New York Yankees Tickets and World Series Tickets. Looking for Cardinals tickets? Stop by OnlineSeats. We’ve got Blues seats and even Rams games. Go to the coasts as well and catch a Celtics game or get Dodgers tickets. Referrals |
Blogs In The Network
Baseball Bloggers Alliance
The BBA has, as a secondary aim, the goal of producing year-end awards in a similar fashion to the Baseball Writers of America. These awards can be found at the official site in October with links back to the voters, ensuring transparency and, most likely, the onset of some good baseball arguments.
Arizona
Venom Strikes
Baltimore
Cincinnati
Some Thoughts On Baseball
The Tao of Steib
Washington
Hendo's Hutch
History's Perspective
Nationals News Network
The Nats Blog
The Stinger Steve Ray
The Tao of Steib
Washington
Hendo's Hutch
History's Perspective
Nationals News Network
The Nats Blog
The Stinger Steve Ray
Fantasy
Dugout Baseball Blog (German)
Major Baseball (French)
Baseball History
1924 Seattle Indians
1924 Seattle Indians
Miscellaneous
Other Baseball
NJ Baseball Magazine
Seedlings To Stars
Shark Bytes
Sports Baseball Bias
Sports Equipment Guru
Tee Ball Baseball
Seedlings To Stars
Shark Bytes
Sports Baseball Bias
Sports Equipment Guru
Tee Ball Baseball
Professional
Thought I'd comment, as a Reds fan. First, I should say reds fans are jealous of the Cardinals success over the years and we've been pushed around for a long time now. It is a great baseball town with lots of tradition and it has been demoralizing to watch our team over the past decade. We want the same success that you all have enjoyed and are hoping that this is the start of something new for our city and team.
I really like lots of guys over on the Card's club, Pujols, Holliday, Berkman, and many others. I'd say that Molina can seem smug but Carpenter gets on my nerves more so. Last year we heard complains about the balls not being rubbed down enough and now there are stories about the mound. Plus I get really tired of hearing how Cueto was playing dirty. I've watched the video over and over and can't find a moment where he isn't just defending himself and openly attacking Larue. I wish it hadn't happened though because Larue was a Red and he definitely did not deserve it. Here we can agree to disagree...
But what we all fail to see is that sports isn't nearly as fun if we don't have a team that we look forward to playing and, hopefully, beating. There are lots of great Reds fans and definitely lots of great Cards fans. I think it is good for both teams to have a rivalry. It will always be this way if our two teams are at the top of the division. Baseball should be a higher class of being a fan and we should have fun but always keep it civil. So good luck guys because this is fun for Cincy fans and we hope to keep it going for year!
First off, it's always good to hear from the other side on things and glad that I didn't come across as offensive, since that wasn't my intent.
I agree that the schedule does get a little more interesting when you can circle a series against a team that you have a little...spice, shall we say, against. It should make for some good talk when the Fourth rolls around!
As for Cueto, yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think kicking has much place in a baseball fight, but I can understand that Reds fans would have a different view, just as Cardinal fans probably would had the situation been reversed.
This is just one more reason to scoff and the news that Joe Torre wants players to stop fraternizing before ballgames. The players model what the fans do. This all started on the field, not in the stands.
I said this on Twitter last night that neither team is as dirty as the opposing fans and team writers seem to think they are. There's just bad blood. It happened with the Red Sox and Yankees back in the day. Now both of those teams really respect each other. So this will turn around.
I'm glad the Reds are out of the basement. Cincinnati is a great baseball town. Maybe once their fans get used to winning again, things will settle down.
Great post. Super
Thanks, William. Being that you are outside of the whole thing, it's nice to have an impartial perspective.
For the most part, both sides seem to respect 90% of the other side. It's just one or two (Phillips and Cueto for Card fans, Carpenter and Molina for Reds fans) that irk the fanbases and fan the flames.
There's no doubt that Cincy is a great baseball town and I wish they'd go back to letting them have the first game every year. No place runs any deeper than the Queen City.