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The Curious Case of Khalil Greene

Posted on December 4, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Filed Under: St. Louis Cardinals
In 2003, Moneyball hit the shelves and caused a revolution in baseball thinking.  Not necessarily in what it said, because there wasn't much very new there.  Baseball Prospectus had been around seven years by that time and Bill James was writing his abstracts over 20 years prior.  What did seem to change, though, was the discussion of baseball.  Sabermetrics made it into the mainstream, not just the corner of the party where the slightly obsessed hung out.  OBP and WHIP are now mainstay acronyms, even showing up on ballpark scoreboards.  Inroads continue to be made.

(At least that was my perspective of it.  Of course, in early 2003 I was on only two message boards, one mid-size, one small.  I didn't have the web presence of this blog and the vast line of UCB products such as the UCB blogs, UCB radio and, coming soon to a store near you, UCB the video game!)

Since the saber age, if you can call it that, really kicked into gear, many of the arguments of player acquisitions have come down on the traditional vs. statistical fault line.  Usually, moves are made where a fan with one mindset says, "Wow, a .280 hitter with 20 HR!" and a fan with the other says, "Ugh, his OBP is .295 and his fielding rating is sub-par."  It's somewhat the difference between the old and the new.

In the case of Khalil Greene, it's the first time with a Cardinal acquisition when I've seen the sabermetric crowd not able to come to a consensus.  On the one hand, Pip at Fungoes, a blogger whom I've made clear I respect immensely, is not a fan of the move.  Yet the guys at Beyond the Boxscore, another very reputable blog, make the case that acquiring Greene is a good thing.  Perhaps nowhere is this tension more notable than the fanpost over at Viva El Birdos discussing the deal.

Really not sure what to make of this intrasquad tension.  Seems to me both sides have some good stats to back up their contentions, so it really boils down to which ones you like better.  Or it means we have to wait until the season starts to really judge how everything works out.

Looking at the bigger picture, it seems to me that it's a good move.  On a day when Edgar Renteria signs for $18.5 million over two years, this deal gives the Cards a younger player for less with the flexibility that, if it doesn't work out after a year, the two can go their separate ways.  There are conflicting reports on whether the Padres are sending money to St. Louis (Bernie says up to $2 million, but Towers says none so I'd lean toward none), but any money that does come in is just bonus.

(And I see where Derrick Goold in his Facebook group notes that it could be both are right--that it depends on the PTBNL.  The better the player, the more the Padres have to give up financially.)

I hope, like Pip says, that this move is just one of the dominos in bringing in more help for next year's squad.  It still looks like Mozeliak will be busy next week in Vegas. 


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3 Comments

3 Comments | Leave a comment

oh, for the ucb videogame...I want my character to be wearing a jim edmonds cardinals jersey when the players choose him (or me if you prefer) to play the game "wing that blog post" or any other activity. how about you C70?

I'm thinking that I'd be an unlockable character in "Plan That Project".

I suppose it's reassuring that even those who use statistics to support their viewpoints can disagree. For all of our fancy Sabermetrics, nothing can replace the ultimately unpredictable human element that draws us into the drama that unfolds every year, and every game and every inning.

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Heroes
Matt Holliday (5)
Matt Carpenter (4)
Rafael Furcal (4)
Carlos Beltran (3)
Jaime Garcia (3)
Jon Jay (3)
Kyle Lohse (3)
Lance Lynn (3)
Yadier Molina (3)
David Freese (2)
Adam Wainwright (2)
Lance Berkman (1)
Allen Craig (1)
Shane Robinson (1)
Fernando Salas (1)
Jake Westbrook (1)

2011 Top Hero: Lance Berkman (24)
2010 Top Heroes: Matt Holliday and Albert Pujols (24)
2009 Top Hero: Albert Pujols (28)
2008 Top Hero: Albert Pujols (25)

Goats
Matt Holliday (4)
Carlos Beltran (3)
David Freese (3)
Jaime Garcia (3)
Jason Motte (3)
Marc Rzepczynski (3)
Adam Wainwright (3)
Rafael Furcal (2)
Tyler Greene (2)
J.C. Romero (2)
Fernando Salas (2)
Mitchell Boggs (1)
Matt Carpenter (1)
Tony Cruz (1)
Daniel Descalso (1)
Jon Jay (1)
Erik Komatsu (1)
Kyle Lohse (1)
Victor Marte (1)
Eduardo Sanchez (1)
Jake Westbrook (1)

2011 Top Goat: Ryan Theriot (12)
2010 Top Goat: Brendan Ryan (14)
2009 Top Goats: Rick Ankiel and Todd Wellemeyer (13)
2008 Top Goat: Troy Glaus (13)

2012 Happy Flights
Happy Flights: 7
Happy Flight Opportunities: 12
Happy Flight %: 58%

Through 5/20

    Cardinal Nation Approval Ratings (March 2012)
    Adam Wainwright 91.9% (down 2.8%)
    Chris Carpenter 90.1% (up 3.2%)
    Lance Berkman 88.6%
    Tony La Russa 88.2% (up 17.4%)
    Yadier Molina 87.4% (up 3.7%)
    Matt Holliday 87.3% (down 3.8%)
    David Freese 85.5%
    John Mozeliak 85.4% (up 13.3%)
    Mike Shannon 85.3% (up 0.4%)
    Jose Oquendo 84.7%
    Derrick Goold 82.8% (down 5.0%)
    Mark McGwire 82.6% (up 20.1%)
    John Rooney 81.5% (down 2.8%)
    Mike Matheny 81.1%
    Bill DeWitt 79.8% (up 8.8%)
    United Cardinal Bloggers 78.9%
    Skip Schumaker 73.3% (up 9.2%)
    Jim Hayes 71.9% (down 4.2%)
    Jon Jay 71.1%
    B.J. Rains 69.5% (down 0.9%)
    Kyle Lohse 68.9% (up 13.8%)
    Dan McLaughlin 68.0%
    Joe Strauss 67.7% (up 10.2%)
    Ricky Horton 67.5% (down 1.6%)
    Al Hrabosky 66.4% (up 3.2%)
    Albert Pujols 54.9% (down 45.5%)
    Colby Rasmus 46.5% (down 35.3%)

    2011
    Dave Duncan 87.9% (up 0.9%)
    Matthew Leach 85.5%
    Pop Warner 76.7%
    Ryan Franklin 72.8% (up 3.1%)
    John Vuch 68.9%
    Jeff Luhnow 66.4%
    Dan Lozano 58.7%

    2009
    Rick Ankiel 83.9%
    Chris Duncan 69.1%


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